Awake, for morning in the bowl of night has flung the stone that puts the stars to flight.
And, lo, has caught the sultan’s turret in a noose of light!
Spanish life is not always likeable but it is compellingly loveable
Christopher Howse: ‘A Pilgrim in Spain’
Cosas de España
A reader – whom I take to be Spanish – insists “Spaniards do turn up and on time when it matters to them”. Exactly. When it suits them. So, as I say, every acceptance by a Spaniard of an invitation or meeting suggestion always comes with this in brackets/parenthesis: “Unless I get a better offer”. Así son las cosas.
I would add that turning up and turning up on time are, actually, 2 different things. I don’t know of any foreigner who would agree that the Spanish turn up on time, at least in a social context. I’ve had neighbours arrive up to 90 minutes late for a dinner. But, to be fair, I have one Spanish friend who prides herself on being prompt. Her Spanish friends call her La Británica, because she abides by la hora británica, not la hora española.
When the UK was in the EU, British residents in Spain were automatically entitled to vote in municipal elections. – assuming they’d first registered with the town hall. Now, though, this isn’t enough and you have to separately register to vote. Which the vast majority of us haven’t bothered to do. Leaving us totally disenfranchised taxpayers.
I’m reminded of this by an Irish chap who says this is also the case for those born in Spain of foreign parents like he and his wife. For these unfortunate souls, he adds, it can take 9 years to achieve Spanish nationality and involve: Exams. Fees. Years without a reply. Money lost. No tracking number, and waits of more than 4 or 5 years to receive any sort of answer. Paradoxically, for incoming Brits it takes ‘only’ 5 years. But, yes, a lot of hassle and expense.
As it happens, I wrote in 2019 on the respective challenges of getting Spanish or Irish nationality*. See below. The Irish chap thinks – rightly – that the law needs to change, at least in respect of folk born in Spain. I don’t get the impression he has much sympathy for incoming Brits faced with their Spanish calvario.
* Which I finally got after a Covid-caused wait of 2 years.
France
It’s said that the moment you cite the Nazis, you’ve lost any argument you’re engaged in. I wonder if this applies to the folk in Avignon who’ve put up 30 posters there featuring M Macron as Adolf Hitler:-
The number forming the moustache which looks like 493 is actually 49.3 – the number of the French constitutional article used to bypass parliament to pass the pension reform law.
The Way of the World
Adidas is selling a ‘gender neutral’ one-piece swimming costume using a model who appears to be male-
The company says the outfit is a “celebration of self-expression, imagination and the unwavering belief that love unites.”. Ironically, it seems that many (‘gaslighted’) women will now be un-lovingly dis-uniteing from Adidas products.
Finally . . .
I read a sad account of a US woman who made a fortune from her ‘mommy’ blog but then let it take over her life. Until she killed herself. The writer observed: Blogging – indeed, many forms of social media – allows people to unhealthily distort themselves for profit. No danger of that for me. I don’t make a red sou from my blog. At least Google used to pay me a pittance each year, for clicks. But WordPress just charge me for their platform. In truth, I’d be richer if I didn’t write this blog.
Welcome to new readers in Poland. Thanks to them, I’ve learned that the Polish word gość means fellow/chap/bloke/cove/guy/dude etc. but also ‘guest’. And, allegedly, visitor, customer, client, boarder, caller, merchant, beggar, inmate and . . . fish.
So, a very useful word. But I’m not sure when it will come in handy . . .
For new readers:- If you’ve landed here looking for info on Galicia or Pontevedra, try here. If you’re passing through Pontevedra on the Camino, you’ll find a guide to the city there.
APPLYING FOR ANOTHER NATIONALITY: SPANISH OR IRISH? 2019
During the 3 years since the shock referendum verdict of mid 2016, there’s been a lot of talk of a Hard Brexit which would – eventually – remove from Brits all the rights they’ve had in the EU for several decades. These would include access to the Spanish healthcare system and visa-free travel for Brits and their kids. On top of this, there’d be new bureaucratic hurdles, including a different ID card to reflect our inferior status. For more information on the threats to Brits, try putting “Sue Wilson” or “Bremain” into the search box of The Local.
I’ve never believed things would come to such a pass – relying both on a belief in the power of the British Establishment to stop it and the common sense among all parties. At the back of my mind, there was also the security of knowing I could retain my rights by obtaining either Spanish or Irish nationality.
But it wasn’t until early this year that I was motivated by Conservative party developments – to investigate the respective processes, influenced a little upfront by the fact I’d heard a friend complain – over 2-3 years – about how the Spanish option was what’s called here un calvario. And this from a fluent Spanish speaker who’d lived her for many years. An important negative aspect was that the Spanish government doesn’t allow dual nationality and so demands that you give up your British passport.
So, I took look at the relevant Spanish web page and, finding the English hard to follow, decided to have no more to do with that option and moved quickly to investigate my Irish option. This was available to me because my grandmother was born in Ireland and, thus, my father had automatically been an Irish citizen. Ironically, I don’t think he ever knew he was both British and Irish. As very many folk born on Merseyside are.
Over the next few months, I got together all the certificates and photos required by the Irish government to allow me to go onto the Irish Birth Register. Once achieved, I could claim a passport. When all was ready, I took advantage of a visit to my elder daughter in Madrid to take the papers to the Irish embassy there and duly lodged them with a nice lady. I now wait on confirmation of registration. This used to take only 6 months but, such has been the rise in applications, it could now take 9 or even 12.
This article is a (shallow) comparison between the Spanish and Irish processes and my caveat is that I’m much more familiar with the latter than the former. So, it’s not something to rely on if you’ve no choice but to go the Spanish route. The government page will be a good start as regards this – if you can figure out what the English text means – but must, I’m sure, be augmented by talking to someone who knows more than I do about it. And I’m told that many people need to take at least an interpreter with them when they go to talk to the Registro Civil about their application. Possibly even a gestor.
One final point in this preamble . . . I don’t know much about the challenge of getting British nationality . other than the residence requirement is 5 years, against a norm of 10 in Spain – so I can’t compare it with either that of Ireland or Spain
All that said, this is my overview of how the challenges differ. I won’t be at all surprised – or upset – to be told I’ve got some things wrong.
FOR POST-BREXIT BRITS WANTING TO GET A NEW NATIONALITY: SPANISH OR IRISH?
Stages
The Irish process involves, firstly, an application to go on the Irish Birth Registration and, secondly, a passport application.
The Spanish process involves at least one (multi-stepped) stage and probably a subsequent passport application.
Who to Apply to?
Spain: The Ministerio de Justicia.
Ireland: The Dept of foreign Affairs and Trade.
How?
Spain: I think on the internet but suspect visits to some offices will also be involved.
Ireland: Only on line.
Web Page Information
Ireland: https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship/born-abroad/registering-a-foreign-birth/
Time from start to finish
Spain: 3 to 4 years, possibly even more. [Now said to be 5 years]
Spain: A lot. See the web page: At least: 1. A period of residence which depends on your status; 2. Certificates of birth etc.; 3. Proof of ID; 4. A Spanish language diploma 5. Evidence of ‘sufficient integration’: 6. Proof of residence; 7. Criminal checks in both Spain and the UK.
Ireland: 1. A parent or grandparent born in Ireland; 2. Certificates of birth etc.; 3. Proof of ID; 4. Proof of residence.
Most importantly, there’s no requirement for residence in Ireland; your entitlement is based on descendence rom an Irish native.
Complexity of the Process/Ease of Application
Spain: High. The English of the web page is poor (What is a ‘literal certificate’?); the application form will surely be long and complex; you might have to deal with a Spanish bureaucrat and, if so, the language of communication will surely be Spanish. So, as I’ve said, you might be well advised to pay a gestor help you.
Ireland: Low. There is a short form of only 4 pages with a 2-3 easy questions on each page; the English of both the advice page and the application itself is very clear; you’ll only have to deal with a computer. Finally, If anything more is needed beyond what you’ve sent, an email will be acceptable. I can’t imagine this being the case with the Spanish option.
Risk of Getting Something Wrong and Slowing Things Down
Spain: High
Ireland: Low
Cost:
Spain: €102, plus the costs of certificates and of everything else you have to provide or do. A language diploma, for example. The fees of any gestor are, of course a piece of string.
Ireland: €270 plus the costs of any certificates you need to get in Ireland or the UK. An easy process, with prices for slow or fast delivery. There are several sites which will help you identify the dates and details of the certificates you might need, becaause you don’t already have them.
Keeping Your British Passport
Spain: No (in theory, at least)
Ireland: Yes
Irritation Factor
Spain: High, I imagine.
Ireland: Low
Stress Levels
Spain: High, I again imagine.
Ireland:Low
My sympathies go out to anyone who has no choice but to go the Spanish route. And, if you haven’t already started on this odyssey, you might find than any transition period ends before you get Spanish nationality.
In other words, you really should have started before the referendum was held!
Thoughts from Pontevedra, Galicia, Spain 
Interesting stuff from 2019 on nationality. The article summed it up well.
My case is different. I got my Spanish nationality in about 15 months, covid possibly responsible.
There are some things to bear in mind. They are partly learnt through trial and error.
1. While Spains public services are digitalising at various speeds, some depts function better than others. The Sergas App is excellent.
I gave up on the poor gov websites and went directly to my local Registro Civil, and said “Quiero ser español”. I was given an A4 sized paper with a list. Collected my list, went back. I made a few mistakes, hadn’t crossed or dotted the it’s and t’s. Fixed it, signed some stuff, then left then to it. Didn’t chase it up, nothing. Eventually it all got sorted. I signed my nationality. I was Spanish. Popped down to the policia nacionalidad without an appointment, produced a few tears, said I was desperate for my DNI, how happy I was. They fit me in. Asked about a passport, was told I needed an appointment. I said I was travelling in a week, going to Dubai, pleeeeaaaseee. I had it in 15 mins. True story.
2. Face to face is often better. The lack of digitalisation and lack of training, means doing things in person is often easier.
3. “Depende a quien te toca.” This means it depends who serves you. Some funcionarios can be real plonkers. Others are very friendly. My rule is to do a bit of brown nosing in these situations. Anger and shouting adds a year to whatever process. Believe me I know this. 🙂
4. For nationality, the first thing they said in Registro Civil was “don’t bother with a lawyer” they can’t speed up the process. I guess, I would say if you must spend, then yes on a translator. Even better, try and learn the lingo in the 5 years prior to asking for nationality. If you can’t, see if a friend, or a friend of a friend, can help, as interpreters are expensive.
5. Try and integrate. It does make life a lot easier. Except for when they get behind the wheel of a car, my overall experience with Spaniards positively outweighs the inconveniences. I am often surprised that assistance and support comes from where you least expect it.
6. Dual nationality. Read what is in brackets. Read between the lines.
7. Acceptance. Spain has things that are difficult to accustom to. I’ve lived in a dozen countries, and yes it is noisy. And they are always late. Don’t stress, if it’s a noisy bar, go and drink your coffee in a park. Or change tables. Or if they dont even turn up, enjoy a moment to yourself. Then remember not to bother inviting them again. We cannot individually change an entire culture. If we can’t integrate or enjoy certain aspects, then we can go mad or accept it, and do something else, or change our own circumstances.
Anyway, I am going on, and am already late for a beer with the lads.
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Interesting stuff from 2019 on nationality. The article summed it up well.
My case is different. I got my Spanish nationality in about 15 months, covid possibly responsible.
There are some things to bear in mind. They are partly learnt through trial and error.
1. While Spains public services are digitalising at various speeds, some depts function better than others. The Sergas App is excellent.
I gave up on the poor gov websites and went directly to my local Registro Civil, and said “Quiero ser español”. I was given an A4 sized paper with a list. Collected my list, went back. I made a few mistakes, hadn’t crossed or dotted the it’s and t’s. Fixed it, signed some stuff, then left then to it. Didn’t chase it up, nothing. Eventually it all got sorted. I signed my nationality. I was Spanish. Popped down to the policia nacionalidad without an appointment, produced a few tears, said I was desperate for my DNI, how happy I was. They fit me in. Asked about a passport, was told I needed an appointment. I said I was travelling in a week, going to Dubai, pleeeeaaaseee. I had it in 15 mins. True story.
2. Face to face is often better. The lack of digitalisation and lack of training, means doing things in person is often easier.
3. “Depende a quien te toca.” This means it depends who serves you. Some funcionarios can be real plonkers. Others are very friendly. My rule is to do a bit of brown nosing in these situations. Anger and shouting adds a year to whatever process. Believe me I know this. 🙂
4. For nationality, the first thing they said in Registro Civil was “don’t bother with a lawyer” they can’t speed up the process. I guess, I would say if you must spend, then yes on a translator. Even better, try and learn the lingo in the 5 years prior to asking for nationality. If you can’t, see if a friend, or a friend of a friend, can help, as interpreters are expensive.
5. Try and integrate. It does make life a lot easier. Except for when they get behind the wheel of a car, my overall experience with Spaniards positively outweighs the inconveniences. I am often surprised that assistance and support comes from where you least expect it.
6. Dual nationality. Read what is in brackets. Read between the lines.
7. Acceptance. Spain has things that are difficult to accustom to. I’ve lived in a dozen countries, and yes it is noisy. And they are always late. Don’t stress, if it’s a noisy bar, go and drink your coffee in a park. Or change tables. Or if they dont even turn up, enjoy a moment to yourself. Then remember not to bother inviting them again. We cannot individually change an entire culture. If we can’t integrate or enjoy certain aspects, then we can go mad or try and accept it, and do something else, or change our own circumstances.
Anyway, I am going on, and am already late for a beer with the lads.
LikeLike
Grrr. WordPress not being very kind to me this weekend. My comment below if it worls is the 3rd attempt to post it, despite WP saying it is fine, or that I keep duplicating it. Here goes.
Interesting stuff from 2019 on nationality. The article summed it up well.
My case is different. I got my Spanish nationality in about 15 months, covid possibly responsible.
There are some things to bear in mind. They are partly learnt through trial and error.
1. While Spains public services are digitalising at various speeds, some depts function better than others. The Sergas App is excellent.
I gave up on the poor gov websites and went directly to my local Registro Civil, and said “Quiero ser español”. I was given an A4 sized paper with a list. Collected my list, went back. I made a few mistakes, hadn’t crossed or dotted the it’s and t’s. Fixed it, signed some stuff, then left then to it. Didn’t chase it up, nothing. Eventually it all got sorted. I signed my nationality. I was Spanish. Popped down to the policia nacionalidad without an appointment, produced a few tears, said I was desperate for my DNI, how happy I was. They fit me in. Asked about a passport, was told I needed an appointment. I said I was travelling in a week, going to Dubai, pleeeeaaaseee. I had it in 15 mins. True story.
2. Face to face is often better. The lack of digitalisation and lack of training, means doing things in person is often easier.
3. “Depende a quien te toca.” This means it depends who serves you. Some funcionarios can be real plonkers. Others are very friendly. My rule is to do a bit of brown nosing in these situations. Anger and shouting adds a year to whatever process. Believe me I know this. 🙂
4. For nationality, the first thing they said in Registro Civil was “don’t bother with a lawyer” they can’t speed up the process. I guess, I would say if you must spend, then yes on a translator. Even better, try and learn the lingo in the 5 years prior to asking for nationality. If you can’t, see if a friend, or a friend of a friend, can help, as interpreters are expensive.
5. Try and integrate. It does make life a lot easier. Except for when they get behind the wheel of a car, my overall experience with Spaniards positively outweighs the inconveniences. I am often surprised that assistance and support comes from where you least expect it.
6. Dual nationality. Read what is in brackets. Read between the lines.
7. Acceptance. Spain has things that are difficult to accustom to. I’ve lived in a dozen countries, and yes it is noisy. And they are always late. Don’t stress, if it’s a noisy bar, go and drink your coffee in a park. Or change tables. Or if they dont even turn up, enjoy a moment to yourself. Then remember not to bother inviting them again. We cannot individually change an entire culture. If we can’t integrate or enjoy certain aspects, then we can go mad or accept it, and do something else, or change our own circumstances.
Anyway, I am going on, and am already late for a beer with the lads.
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David, a Madrid-based English friend whose English wife took 3+ years to get nationality pre Covid has asked if yr 15m included the language and culture exams.
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No.
I did the original app in Feb 2020, got a call in Apr 2021 to go in and sign myself up as a Spaniard.
No culture or language exams, although it was clearly obvious I speak native level Spanish. I wasn’t even asked to swear and sign my loyalty to the king. This was all in Coruña, I can’t comment on other areas, but I imagine in Madrid they play things more by the book. Don’t know
Who knows, maybe I got lucky with the funcionarios. A lot of them are anti-monarchy.
I did check one thing with the UK embassy. If I sign away my British nationality on a Spanish gov document, would I lose it forever. The answer is as simple as NO, if you were born in the UK. Spanish documents have no legal standing in UK law. If they take your UK passport, apply for another if you think it helps. If you use a British passport in Spain after getting Spanish nationality, you are at risk of losing your hard earned Spanish citizenship. That is a big NO NO.
Now, I thought 15 months was long, but it appears to have been quite fast compared to what I am hearing. Maybe Covid actually helped, what with immigration and citizenship requests at all but a standstill in the 1st Covid year. You know, border shut and all that.
As with all Spanish bureaucracy, with 17 autonomous and 50 something provinces, it really is a pot-pourri.
I would argue that strong language skills will always help. It is appreciated a lot here.
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No.
I did the original application in Feb 2020, got a call in Apr 2021 to go in and sign myself up as a Spaniard.
No culture or language exams, although it was clearly obvious I speak native level Spanish. I wasn’t even asked to swear and sign my loyalty to the king. This was all in Coruña, I can’t comment on other areas, but I imagine in Madrid they play things more by the book. Don’t know
Who knows, maybe I got lucky with the funcionarios. A lot of them are anti-monarchy.
I did check one thing with the UK embassy. If I sign away my British nationality on a Spanish gov document, would I lose it forever. The answer is as simple as NO, if you were born in the UK. Spanish documents have no legal standing in UK law. If they take your UK passport, apply for another if you think it helps. If you use a British passport in Spain after getting Spanish nationality, you are at risk of losing your hard earned Spanish citizenship. That is a big NO NO.
Now, I thought 15 months was long, but it appears to have been quite fast compared to what I am hearing. Maybe Covid actually helped, what with immigration and citizenship requests at all but a standstill in the 1st Covid year. You know, border shut and all that.
As with all Spanish bureaucracy, with 17 autonomous and 50 something provinces, it really is a pot-pourri.
I would argue that strong language skills will always help. It is appreciated a lot here.
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Many thanks, David. Can I cite today?
My friend’s wife is an ex Br consul and fluent in Spanish. Didn’t seem to help.
C.
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Yes or course.
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Of
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